Shortwave Records - Publishing Vinyl and Digital Music In Madison - The Lorenzo's Music Podcast (Transcript)
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Tom Ray: Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Lorenzo’s Music Podcast. I’m Tom, and this is a show where I talk to musicians. I talk to people that create things for musicians. And most of the time with a spin on, the Creative Commons or open source realm. But I also like meeting bands, especially bands and people involved in music that are in the town I live in. So that’s why I’m talking with this person today. So why don’t you tell the people who you are and what it is you do?
Eric Hartz: Yeah. I’m Eric Hartz and I run a local record label called Shortwave Records in Madison, Wisconsin. And I play in a couple bands in town here, one of them being the Flavor that Kills. Another one is, Wristwatch. Another one is, Shayzy Hayd, Heavy Looks. And then I have a solo project called Vultures 2 that I work on.
Tom Ray: You keep busy is basically what you’re saying.
Eric Hartz: Try to. Gotta keep busy. Gotta keep moving.
Tom Ray: And for people who might not have seen the previous or an episode a, couple episodes back, I talked to the Flavor that Kills and you were out in. I don’t know where you were, but
Eric Hartz: you were in a cabin. I was up, up my. At a cottage my parents have in the. In the Dells area. So it’s like spotted Internet and stuff up there.
Tom Ray: But it was very entertaining the way there. Okay, there’s. Before we move on to this, I just wanna. I, just wanna. Because I didn’t get a chance to talk to you about this. There’s one point you keep trying to connect back in, and it’s entertaining the way that you keep connecting back in and then you’ll disappear again. You’ll lose the connection. But there’s one point where I was talking to the singer and he was trying to remember the name of somebody. You popped in for a brief second and he said, who is that person? And you were like. I want to say. You said Craig or Sean or Eric or something like that. And then they went, oh, yeah, that’s who. And then you lost connection again. It’s like, it’s. It’s almost like you were his assistant. I’m sorry, did you have a question? So it was. It was perfect. There was one moment where, like, you popped in and it was actually just like you answered a question for him and then disappeared again. Anyway, that. If. If you want, go check out that episode if you haven’t seen it already. Anyway, and then I contacted you afterwards because I really did, on that interview, want to talk to you about Shortwave Records. So tell me a little bit about Shortwave Records. Why did you start that? How did it get started?
Eric Hartz: Well, it’s old. I’ll tell you the history. So, we used to be in a band called Hum machine in the 90s, mid-90s, late 90s, in Madison. And we started our own record label called Cancer Records because nobody else would put out our stuff. And then, we actually got quite a large distribution deal with Red Eye Music, which, which is a huge ginormous independent distributor now. They actually just sold to Excelsior, so they’re, they, they, they became so big and they sold out. but at the time they were kind of just, you know, getting going in the distribution game for records and stuff like that and working with independent artists and they, did a lot of stuff, with a lot of bands. some stuff with Jeff Tweedy and some of his fans, Apples for Stereo, a whole bunch of different bands. They happen to like our band Hum Machine a lot. And they offered us a really nice distribution deal so we can kind of get our foot in the door. This was at a time when CDs were coming out. There wasn’t much to do with vinyl and you know, we were getting our They were able to get our CDs in Best Buy, all sorts of stuff. And we were charting on college radio and doing pretty well. And so that’s how the label started. It used to be called Cancer Records and we changed the name. It was Cancer off the Astrology Cancer. But we just changed it because we didn’t want to deal with that name. So we changed it to Shortwave Records. And so we continued doing stuff, you know, through the late 90s, 1990s and early 2000s. And then it fully shifted to. And I was talking to Red Eye about this early on, about what are we going to do? This is like pre, kind of like Apple Music before it was really kind of getting the download age. Yeah, it was very early stages and what we started doing is we started going back to doing vinyl releases and then we put a CD in there. And then it went from putting a CD in the vinyl releases to doing a download card. And this is the early stages when, when labels were doing this. So I was, I was pretty involved with that distribution company and just from a local record label trying to figure out, you know, what do consumers want? What’s the best way to do it. then over the years shortwave evolved. I changed, you know, got bands and age and time and everything. I just, I always kept the label, you know, to put out my stuff. but I, I lost a distribution deal with Red Eye when they sold. And, even though I was still doing some cool stuff, I did some, you know, jazz stuff with Thrill Jockey, with Own Fidelity. I did the, recently did the solo releases for Dick Valentine from Electric Six. Even though I’m doing stuff like that, it’s still pretty hard to get distribution, quite honestly. I don’t need it. I don’t. I’m not at a point where I, at the level this label’s at. I don’t need to be dealing with the distribution company. I’ll tell you why. Because they just suck money for me. Unless you’re moving like, you know, 5 to 10,000 units, we’re not doing that. So, So I shifted everything, a couple years ago, like two years ago to Band Camp. And I had, you know, a pro Band Camp page for the label. And I realized that it’s a great, it’s a great, system for people like me and small people to get this stuff directly to the consumers to buy it. And I love it. I hope it never changes. It probably will. They’ll probably be sold or something.
Tom Ray: It’s been very close three times. Three times. It’s almost gone away.
Eric Hartz: At some point it will, but something else will come along. But yeah, it does allow me a lot of control to do what I want to do as a local label that’s not making a lot of money or a lot of sales, but still have enough that, you know, I can sustain the label a little bit and keep putting out records. Right. So, you know, we’re not profitable, but we’re, we’re close to breaking even on some stuff. And there’s some stuff that sells and some that doesn’t. So that’s the history of shortwave records. And when I moved the Band Camp, I started doing kind of archival thing with Madison and Milwaukee area bands. And I would go back and like, Clip the Daisies is a good example. Transformer, Loopig, both big Madison bands in the 90s had had cassettes that have never been released. So, I, I, you know, I’m m friends with a lot of these people and the deal is always like, you could make them available, but make them available for free for everybody so they could have them that wanted them. So I started doing that in addition to putting out new releases like the Flavor that Kills and Dick Valentine and stuff like that. So it’s kind of a hybrid Label now, half archival stuff and half new stuff. and that, that’s where it sits right now. You know, I, I try to put out local releases, from Milwaukee and Madison bands and, and I’m primarily Wisconsin label. But I mean, we will do things with other people like Dick Valentine from Electric6 if, if it works out for both of us, both parties, to get the music out there. So.
Tom Ray: Okay. And do you sell, Are you doing physical items? M still on Bandcamp or are you just doing downloads?
Eric Hartz: Yeah, yeah. So I, so when in 90s when vinyl was kind of disappearing, I’ve always been a big vinyl head and audiophile guy. So I, I knew the process, probably a lot more of how to make records and from every step involved with that. So, I’ve always continued to be interested in that. so I absolutely, with new releases, try to focus on the, vinyl releases for everybody. But we do CDs too. But I mean, I would say the difference between maybe me, our Shortwave wave and other labels is we, I put a lot of time and effort into the process of getting a vinyl record out to the point that, you know, I want the quality to be really good matter, you know, as a matter of how it’s mastered, who’s cutting the record, who’s plating the record and then.
Tom Ray: Yeah, how do you determine that? Where are you finding these, these places?
Eric Hartz: Yeah, there, well, there’s a couple. I mean, I could, I, I go through. There’s two pressing plants I go through. I’m not, I’m not. I always want two of everything because, you know, you never know what’s going to happen with one. And these, these smaller pressing plants get, you know, they get backlogged from major labels now too, because they can’t press records all the time at the big plants. So. But the two that I use that I like. Ah, and this isn’t to say that anybody else is great. These are just the two that I found that work for me are, are Palomino in Kentucky. actually there’s three Palomino in Kentucky, Smash Plastic in Chicago and Waxy Poodle in, in Middleton. or Cross Plains in, in Wisconsin here. So I have used all three of those to, for different, releases. and I usually have three people. Two people that primarily master our stuff. Justin Perkins and Mystery Mastery, Mystery Room Mastering, who’s great in Wisconsin and then Carl Saf is in Chicago and I prim work with those two most of the time for mastering Stuff. And then, Carl can also cut vinyl too. That’s another process in addition to the mastering. And then I have Ryan Smith, he’s at Sterling Mastering. Cut, some albums too. So, there are others, but those are the main kind of people that I go through to get the records out. So.
Tom Ray: Okay, gotcha. And then also a brief, just history connection thing here. So in Hum Machine, I used to, You guys played all the time at the Paramount Music hall and I was the booking agent at Paramount Music Hall.
Eric Hartz: Yeah.
Tom Ray: So. So I did see you guys quite a bit. And clip, the Daisies, I want to say. Was Chris Boger involved in that?
Eric Hartz: Oh, the bass player. was Dan Dietrich.
Tom Ray: Oh, it was Dan Dietrich. Okay.
Eric Hartz: He’s no longer on the planet, but he was the bass player. Yeah. So, I’m not sure if he was involved at some point or the other. Right. Because he could have during some.
Tom Ray: It might have been one of the other ones too. I get a lot of those bands confused during that time because there was a lot of people in each other’s bands and there was one that was confusing. I know. And I know our guitarist Eric Brusewitz would talk about it all the time and I can’t remember. I think he just did sound for you guys a lot.
Tom Ray: anyway. Okay, sorry. And then, so maintaining the stuff like this, like, maintaining the label, actually getting the stuff out there, going through the archives, finding this stuff, creating those.
Tom Ray: How much effort does it take to do this? How often are you shipping or creating or archiving stuff?
Eric Hartz: Yeah, well, I try to do at least one release a month. Whether it’s archiving or putting a record out. it really boils down to my time because it’s. It’s. It’s a, employee of one. Me. Yeah. Anybody else doing stuff. So, certainly not at the point where I, I would. Would be able to afford to hire somebody. I would be at the point where I might be able to take on an intern or something like that. But, I. I like having control. So usually, once a month I try to get something out. Sometimes I’m getting something out every week. The Vinyl releases are becoming more expensive and to do so where I used to be able to turn around a vinyl release in. In two, months or so, it’s now three to four months, up to six sometimes to get it out. So it takes a while. And quite honestly, it’s a real painful process to do it. Right, yeah. Bands can do vinyl now. There’s also all these options for bands they could do. Could do like, one off vinyl and all these. The problem with the. The quick stuff, and it’s great for bands who want to do that. I’m sure it serves a really good service for those bands, and I encourage bands to do what works best for them. But for me, there is a significant loss of quality in the sound when you’re doing it quickly like that. And it comes in the mastering and the cutting and the plating, process those three, which are three different things. And you need three different skilled people to do them correctly. And that’s also three different people you have to pay. So it ends up the. The back end of putting out vinyl that people don’t know about is the most expensive part. It’s not pressing them. It’s not pressing 500 records or whatever. It’s not getting 500 covers. It’s the back end of getting it to that point where. Where most of the costs are involved, at least in my experience, if you want to do it right. So, I could still do a budget vinyl record of 200 copies for under $5,000, probably, which is, you know, pretty much where it’s at. Bands can certainly do it for less than that, if they want. If they want to. You know. it’s not cutting corners. It’s just doing it a different way that’s more affordable to them. For me, I want all our. My records that I put on the sound really good. So. Yeah, because I’m an audio file guy. I’m like an audio guy. I always have been. So, you know, I just want them to sound good for me so they end up good for everybody. Hopefully they should. If they don’t, then, you know, like, I have a problem now with the new. The new Vultures album I’m working on right now, which is an album with Roscoe Mitchell and Nels Klein and Eric Bachman, Kofi Baker. There’s a whole bunch of people on this record involved with this record, and I’ve been working on it for like 10 years. And I’ve just. I just rejected the second test pressing because it wasn’t. It didn’t it. There was some problems with it. Not really anybody’s fault. It’s just like most people might accept that because they were tiny little problems, but not me. you know, I want to make sure it sounds perfect and it sounds right. So we may. We might even have to go back and recut that record. So if we do, then we’ll have to do that. But that takes up a lot of time, so.
Tom Ray: Right. Yeah. And well, I’m. That’s the reason for the test press too. Otherwise that way you don’t have 200 of the damn thing, you know.
Eric Hartz: Yeah. And I think, I think the. A lot of people with the test pressings, I, I don’t know that I shouldn’t say a lot of people because I just don’t know. But I, I think for me it’s important that I, am very critical when I get my test pressings.
Tom Ray: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Eric Hartz: Everybody should be right. And I won’t. I’m not going to accept anything that’s even remotely flawed. but I think people do. I know major labels do, certainly, because I’ll get records and I’ll be like, that’s not. I know exactly what happened with that. And somebody let it through. And you. Nobody should do that with a major label. I’ve actually had some offers from major labels to do some work with them on vinyl. Stuff that I’ve turned down just because it didn’t make sense for me. But, because of like, you know, just knowing what to look for and what to listen to. But, you know, the reality is a lot of people buy records because they want the record and they’re listening to it on whatever stereo they have and it sounds fine to them. So it’s probably not a big deal. The people like me is like such a small amount of people that it. We don’t matter. We’re not gonna matter. You know, like, we matter to those people, like craft recording or, there’s some, some high end boutique, places that redo vinyl, all analog and they’re like 400 when you buy them and stuff like that. That’s like the people that, you know, I’m that type of person, the geek. So.
Tom Ray: All right, and with this, are you mostly doing bands that you’re involved with or do you outreach for other musicians? Like, how does that work for finding.
Eric Hartz: Yeah, mostly bands I’m. And to some degree, I mean,
Tom Ray: I do see your picture on most of the photos on the bandcamp.
Eric Hartz: I set it up for my stuff. that’s originally how I set it up to release my things. And then I was like, well, I got friends that don’t have, you know, they have. Cassette tapes, are never out. Let’s put those out. And lately, like German art students, I put that vinyl out. Nester’s a local band. I put. I helped them get that vinyl out, Elephonics from Milwaukee, I helped them, you know, get that vinyl of that out. So. Yeah, as I’ve gotten more into like, you know, putting it, setting up for myself, trying to do other releases for my friends of mine or other bands too. and then the Dick Valentine thing from Electric Six was just, you know, I knew him, talked to him, and he was looking for someone to put out his solo stuff on vinyl. So I, we worked out a deal to do that too. So.
Tom Ray: Okay. And I know that you mentioned, I mean, going all the way back to Hum machine in the 90s, being in Madison. Are you from Madison or are you from somewhere else? You came to Madison?
Eric Hartz: Yeah, I came. I’m from Waukesha.
Tom Ray: Okay.
Eric Hartz: I’m a full blood Waukesha person. Born and raised there, unfortunately. Well, fortunately and unfortunately. And, I moved to Madison to go to school here. Finished. And I never left. So.
Tom Ray: Okay.
Eric Hartz: I’ve been here since 91, I think.
Tom Ray: Yeah. I mean, at that point, you know, you’re. You’re allowed to be a Madisonian at that point. Sure.
Eric Hartz: But I, I’ve been here for quite a long time.
Tom Ray: Yes. Yes, that’s. I just wasn’t sure if you grew up here, like what side of town you were from. But yeah, I walked in. Okay, gotcha. And, so now here’s a question I want to ask you. And I think a lot of people would be interested in this too. So with taking a label and moving it to Bandcamp, or even starting a label on Bandcamp, which a lot of people do, going through yours, you actually do have a multi level arrangement for a label set up on Bandcamp. If you click into one of the albums, for instance, it goes to a category of that artist and their discography. Whereas a lot of labels that I see, you click on one, and it’s just, it, it’s just like a flat layout. There is no, like, separating the bands and putting the effort into that. How do you set up a multi level label on Bandcamp? I mean, you clearly had to investigate that.
Eric Hartz: Sure. money. That’s how you do it.
Tom Ray: So is it one of their pro features? Is that what you’re saying?
Eric Hartz: It’s. It’s most likely the difference you’re talking about is the difference between the free, feature and like the pro, feature. So like a label, like, let’s say like Merge Records, like Super Chunk and all those bands or Matador, they. They have the same band camp system that I have, which is just a. The pro version and it costs. It’s 50 bucks a month. So, you know, that’s 500, 600 bucks a year. So. So my, My thing with just that piece is I got to be at least hopefully making 600 bucks a year. Most of my stuff for the digital is free.
Tom Ray: Yeah.
Eric Hartz: So it’s either free or name your price, which could be free too. Now I’ll say I, I really like. I feel really fortunate that people that like, let’s say they listen to old hum. machine release, right. and it’s free, but usually people make, you know, they’ll pay for it. They’ll give some donations that kind of keeps. That enables me to keep doing that. So, it’s not a lot, but it’s only. I only need $50 a month to keep that run that piece, that part of it running.
Tom Ray: Yeah.
Eric Hartz: but my fear is either it gets sold or, you know, like at some point, you know, if I, If I do run out of money or I don’t. Can’t make that 50, dollars a month. And I try to do it yearly so I go by the year, that I, you know, I’d have to shut it down, which means all that goes away. So.
Tom Ray: Yeah.
Eric Hartz: Well, have you ever thought about.
Tom Ray: Have you ever thought about shifting it to a. Like a Kofi or a Patreon type store? Because they also have a cart that’s involved in there as well. And they are trying. I feel like they’re anticipating this coming because they are involving more audio uploads that you can do to like, play previews and stuff. Have you looked into that?
Eric Hartz: Yeah, so they’re not quite there yet. Okay. they’re, I would say they have a little bit of engineering to do, in order to make a site, comparable to Bandcamp. Just the way that the, back end and programming is set up. Because it’s very easy for me to program and change things and upload stuff, get it set up. Patreon’s not quite there yet. you know, they could get there. I think they actually just hired some people from Bandcamp, so they may be in that direction. You know, there’s. There’s also like, you know, other types of, you know, places that you could do that. I don’t know. What’s the. The one where all the writers are on subreddit or something like that?
Tom Ray: Yeah, that’s, great. Now I’m forgetting the name of it. Yeah, it’s sub. I want to say Sublime substack. There you go. I wanted to say sublime.
Eric Hartz: So, like, Substack’s a good example of, like, what Bandcamp does for writers, right? It’s, you know, same type of thing, and. And like, it’d be easy to shift that over for them to expand. You know, it’s. We’re ever evolving now. I look at. I talked to an artist recently that was focusing on. On Spotify. I won’t say who it is, but they were focusing on Spotify and, Apple Music, primarily Spotify. And I said, well, that’s great, but, like, are you. Do you see any money from. And they’re like, no, not really. And I’m like, a Bandcamp page? And they’re like, no. And I was like, you got to get a Bandcamp page because, like, it’s instant. Not only do you get instant payment direct from customers, but you can see stats on who’s listening, where they’re listening from. Right? And all the information, and you can contact them and reach out and build a fan base. You can’t do any of that on Spotify. And now Bandcamp’s got a nice app that you can listen to stuff on there. they can stream stuff directly on there. you can download it in. In high res or low res. I mean, it’s a great site for independent labels and artists. It’s. In fact, I think it’s so good now that. That’s why I worry, because when stuff starts to get pretty good, and I know they went through one changeover already, but they kind of got things back on track, and now I’m worried it’s going to happen again, because that’s usually what happens. It gets to the point where it’s really smooth and working for the artists like me who aren’t making money, but trying to just get the music out there, right? Just trying to get my. To pay myself to keep it running. then it. Then. Then someone buys it or they sell it. So, you know, and so the. That I’m worried about that, but, you know, yeah, say something else will come up.
Tom Ray: The most difficult thing about it is, is that it was built during and on top of a download business model. And that’s not a thing really anymore. Now people download the same way that they buy a cd in the sense where they go, well, I just want to support you. I don’t even have a CD player to play something in, but I’ll buy your cd. ones that I would. I would tell you to keep an eye out for who actually are addressing this specifically, and I’ve talked to them on the show here. one is called Mirlo M I R L O. And they are doing specifically for music bands, download carts, playable in the screen, analytics, and they’re a co op based in the east coast, and they’re one that I’ve been using. And it’s a nice. It’s a nice setup. It’s very comparable to, Bandcamp. and another one is actually called Bandwagon, and it’s a guy who built, a site that right now is a free hosted site. And, that one’s good, too. I’ve been testing both of those out, and they’re good comparisons. They’re hosted and, have a. We’re not really looking to be bought out by somebody business model. Like, there’s no fear of it being bought out. So, So just check those out. Just wanted to mention them. I’ve talked to them on the show, and they’re great people, and they’re doing great stuff for bands, and they’re really trying to go in that direction.
Eric Hartz: They’re. Yeah. In fact, the next Flavor that Kills, album we’re gonna try to. I think I was thinking about Bandwagon and doing, like, the release on there and Bandcamp at the same time to kind of test it out and see how it works out. Yeah, but the other one I haven’t heard.
Tom Ray: It was the other one called Mirlo, which. It sounds like Merlot, like the wine, but it’s M I R L O. Yeah, that one’s really good. And that one has, free download tiers. It also has posted. Well, I mean, Bandwagon has posting capabilities too, but, And both of them do have. They can be public, private. You can message people. Yeah, no, they’re. They’re pretty. They’re pretty interesting sites, and I’ve been testing them for a while, and they’re pretty sturdy. So. Yeah, just wanted to mention those. And, what about the artwork for the albums? Now, you said that you would reprint some or you were helping some people who didn’t have stuff in print bring them out, make vinyl versions of them. You took, like, the German art students, for example. You took a cassette of theirs. Now, if you put that on vinyl, how are you getting the artwork for that? How are you. Are you making new artwork or.
Eric Hartz: Yeah, well, I. I did the last German art students album in vinyl, too, in addition to the, So I did the vinyl release of Diamonds and Queens, I think it was called. Or, I did the vinyl version of that now. So most of the time with the artwork, if it’s a band I’m in, I’m at some point involved in the artwork, probably not doing it, but there’s a lot of back end stuff with the art too, so.
Tom Ray: Right.
Eric Hartz: but I usually leave everything up to the bands, full control. Whatever they want to do with their. Where I get involved with the van, the bands. If I’m putting out a band that I’m not in is the mastering and the cutting piece because like I said before, I want it to have a certain, you know, level of quality that I put out. So they’re usually using, you know, people that I want to use for that for that part. But artwork for the bands, I’ve been like the flavor that kills the. Has all of our work by Clara Kesselvig who is, is one of our bass player’s wife. So she’s, she’s an artist that does all our artwork for that artwork by she Haid is done by artist named Guy Trampy in town here. The artwork for Vultress is done by Sam Johnson who’s also an artist in town too. So there I, you know, I do try to focus a lot on the art just as much as the sound and the audio too. I want it to be, I want it to be, you know, I want it to be a good all around album. Like you know. M. You take the albums. When I was a kid, my, I got in the vinyl because my dad used to listen to records. So that’s how I got into it. I used to hold up the records and look at the covers and put it on and listen to it. You know that, that’s what got me into it. So the out, sometimes the covers were just as important and the art, oh yeah. the music. So. But, but right. You know there’s printing art. I, I’ve done hand printed art on covers. I’ve made my own vinyl covers before. I have a couple dyes at some dye shops that I can make my own covers if I want. And I also print some stuff at a place in Canada, that a lot of labels actually use to print up stuff. So I mean I, I want to. I, I know a lot of things. I know a little about a lot of things.
Tom Ray: Right.
Eric Hartz: Like I know a little bit about a lot of stuff, but I can’t. I could probably do most of it if I had to, but I, I, you know, I have graphic design people that I hire to help me out and do stuff. And, and all that stuff.
Tom Ray: But I can do more time.
Eric Hartz: It takes more time, more money. I mean, but, but I do know a little about a lot. So, I mean, I could take a band and get their album out and, and make sure every single piece of it is covered. that’s, I don’t, it does, it hasn’t been useful for me in a career or anything like that, but.
Tom Ray: Right.
Eric Hartz: Maybe for my hobby.
Tom Ray: Okay. And so how do people contact you? Quite a bit to be on there. Do you take, get what would be submissions?
Eric Hartz: Yeah, sure. I do. the, the, the reality is, for most of the bands I put out, I am fronting and, and covering the cost of the vinyl for them.
Tom Ray: That’s okay.
Eric Hartz: they retain all their rights and I recoup that cost when they sell vinyl. But that, that’s, that’s a, that’s a loss for me. So, so I can only take so much losses, you know, like each record if I’m putting up 2500 bucks or whatever and you know, I’m getting a thousand or fifteen hundred back, this fine as I’m doing it, but it’s still those losses click up. Right. So, you know, it’s like, oh, now I’m 4,000 debt, now I’m 5,000 debt. I budget out every year how much I can afford. So this year for 2026, I can’t do any more releases for this year. I just don’t have the budget or the money. But next year in 2026, I would like to do at least three, hopefully four releases. so three of those spots are taken up. One by the Voltrous project I mentioned, one by the flavor that kills their leaves, another one. But I think there’s going to be a band I’m going to put up with that leaves one open space for somebody, you know, that I could, you know, if I like. Well, I’ll tell you what I like to do because I’m a little older, I would like to help out some younger bands in Wisconsin and younger bands that don’t have anything out and help them get something out, you know, work with them so that not only in the putting out vinyl, but maybe even in the recording process too, because I’ve been getting a little bit more into on the production side of music and it’s something I might want to go into at some point, more producing records. And I would like to help a younger band from, you know, start to finish to get an album, record it and get it out and, and vinyl and all formats and stuff like that. So I’m trying to think of how I can do that and how I might do that. you know, the first step is trying to find a band that I really like because I gotta be in. I have to be into the band. So, you know, if anybody wants to send me stuff, I’m willing to, I’ll listen to it. I’m probably not gonna like it, but you never know. Right? There’s always. You just never know. if, but if I find something I really like, I have the space and the money to help get that out. So, you know, it’s just. I just gotta be like, it’s. I really gotta be into it because I gotta be passionate about it because I’m putting, I’m gonna be putting some money into it. So.
Tom Ray: Yeah. And. Well, and speaking of that, on the other side, how do you promote the label? How do you get the word out there? I mean, if you’re already saying you need to at the very least recoup $50 a month, just not doing anything isn’t going to help that. So how do you market the entire thing that you’re doing or at least promote it?
Eric Hartz: I don’t. So. Okay. All right. That’s a piece that I probably. Well, there’s two pieces to that. Right. There’s the marketing, just marketing label, which I haven’t, I haven’t done yet. I don’t need to right now. I haven’t done it yet. But there’s also putting money into releases like Dick Valentine from electric 6 that market the label for, for you. Right. We ran some ads in the Big Takeover for a couple records we put out that helps market the label, but we’re really trying to focus on the bands, but the label’s in there too. Right. So.
Tom Ray: Right.
Eric Hartz: You know, that, that brings a little bit more awareness, to the label. I, I would like to do that at some point. I just don’t think I’m quite there yet because I’m focusing so much on the music and the bands. And at some point, you know, I, I would also like to start my own distribution company. So I just don’t. Can I have a list of stores that I work with directly, in the Eastern and Midwest? and I need to continue doing that to try to get, our stuff in. Continue to get our stuff in those stores. And it’s selling, you know, it’s not sitting on the shelves. It’s moving. but, but at some point, I’ll have a network set up. So, like, you know, if I do more with the label in the future, I’m going to have like a distribution, line set up for myself that I won’t have to go to anybody else. Once you go to distribution with somebody, if you’re not, like I say, if you’re not moving 5, 10,000 records, you’re going to end up paying. They’re going to have chargebacks for you, they’re going to have marketing costs for you. It, I’ve been there, I’ve done it. It’s, it’s just not worth it. And they’re not going to, they’re not going to put your, they’re not going to put your album on the front center. They’re not going to do it. You’re not going to get that space unless you have thousands of dollars to pay for it. So it’s. Most people will never be there. so it’s just a slow build at my pace, really. That’s how I’m doing it.
Tom Ray: Okay. And then, I just wanted to ask one more thing too. I know you mentioned that you had things that were going to be coming out within the next year.
Eric Hartz: What stuff?
Tom Ray: Stuff, do you have stuff that have, hasn’t been released or is going to be released sometime soon this year? Or did you want to talk more about some of the stuff that’s coming out next year? Just what’s coming up in the future?
Eric Hartz: So the biggest album would be the Vulture Strap album. I’m, I, I was talking about that by far is, is going to be a, the, maybe the biggest release Shortwave will ever put out.
Tom Ray: Yeah.
Eric Hartz: There were two previous Vultures records with Roscoe Mitchell. One, of them had Nels Klein. One of them had Bernie Worrell on him. this one has stacked a stacked lineup. It’s been 10 working on it for 10 plus years. It’s done, it’s recorded, working on the, you know, the vinyl, getting that finished and then looking, at a January release date. It was supposed to come out. I wanted to get it out in October. It’s not ready yet. It’s not going to be ready for October. So I’m pushing it to January. So that by far will be the focus of the next, the biggest focus in the next couple months. After that, there’s going to be another Flavor that Kills record that’s going to come out.
Tom Ray: Oh, okay.
Eric Hartz: So those two will be the next two releases. And there’s another band that I can’t say yet we’re going to put out and then that. Then hopefully by that time I find a band to do that. I really want to. I really want to help younger bands out. you know, when I was a young band, we came to Madison, Butch Vig and Doug Olson from Smart Studios and Brian Anderson helped us out and gave us a spec deal with Boat Records. Dave Venton, who used to run a record store, also not in the planet anymore, but you know that they. We had people that helped us out, when we were getting started. And, I just. I want to try to do that for, some younger bands at some point. Point before I leave the planet. So.
Tom Ray: Yeah. Okay. And, also just because it popped into my head and I mentioned it and you can take it however you want, but a record I would like to see redone and brought back to life is Ghost Ride by Couch Flambeau. I would love to get.
Eric Hartz: That’s a great. That’s a great suggestion. And they’re Wisconsin band. I actually have connections, so I. You know what?
Tom Ray: I just love that album.
Eric Hartz: That’s something I would be interested in. yeah, that’s a great idea. We should talk about that later because, you know, that. That might be something that I would be interested in, pursuing to see where it’s at and who has the rights and all that stuff. So.
Tom Ray: Yeah, no, it’s just really hard. It’s hard to even find, like, YouTube rips of it. You know what I mean?
Eric Hartz: That’s the kind. That’s the kind of stuff I like to do. I mean that, you know, I was very close. not very close, I would say. I was in conversations about. Chris Cornell has a record called Scream that nobody likes, which I kind of like. It’s never been released on vinyl, so I was like, I, I just want to put that out so I can listen to it on vinyl. And, you know, I went through the process and licensing stuff and it was like, come on, man. Like these guys. I’m like, a little. Why don’t you guys put it out? You’re a major label. If you want to do it so bad, just put it out. And like, well, no, we want someone else to do it, but we want to charge you, like, $50,000. Like, come on there. It’s probably going to come out anyways at some point. But I like the Couch Flambeau is a much more realistic realm to explore. And they’re also a Wisconsin band, which is. Is. I like to focus on Wisconsin music.
Tom Ray: So, yeah, I have a place in my heart for them because they are the first band that I saw when I was, Went illegally underage to a bar. And the first band I saw when I turned 21. So I went to Okays and saw them when I was underage. And Okays is gone, so I can say that about them right now. And, and then Club to Wash, when I turned 21. So anyway, I just wanted to mention that it popped into my head, and all of a sudden I have these memories of Couch Flambo.
Eric Hartz: I need more ideas like that.
Tom Ray: All right. And then, if people wanted to find out more about Shortwave Records, where could they do that?
Eric Hartz: Just go to Shortwave Wave Records, Bandcamp, Dot com. if you go to Bandcamp, just put Shortwave Records. It should come right up. and you contact me and send me stuff through that. If you really want to send me some demos and stuff that I’m probably not going to like, but I might. I’m always willing to listen to stuff, so. And I do have a spot for a band to help out, that is for sure. I have that written up in my plan, so. So it exists.
Tom Ray: All right. And then I want to thank you so much for being on the show today. This was great.
Eric Hartz: All right. Yeah, Thanks a lot to.